Red Bulls tie Arsenal, Win Emirates Cup



The New York Red Bulls surprised many supporters and maybe even themselves with a tie against English juggernaut, Arsenal. The draw clinched the Emirates Cup for New York beating out Boca Juniors, Paris Saint-Germain and host Arsenal for the European preseason prize. 

"We definitely represent MLS and I was a little bit worried at the beginning before the tournament that we shouldn’t embarrass ourselves," head coach Hans Backe told the A.P. after New York's win against PSG on Saturday. ”So today it was OK. It will be 10 times worse tomorrow [against Arsenal]."

It was better than OK for the Red Bulls as Thierry Henry set up the equalizing goal against Arsenal in the 85 minute. Henry held the ball at the top of the box and played a precise ball to a cutting Roy Miller. Miller sent a dangerous cross into the six-yard box and amidst a scramble in front of goal, Arsenal defender Kyle Bartley knocked the ball into his own net. 

After dominating the first half, Arsenal scored a much deserved goal in the 42nd minute. Tomas Rosicky played a long free kick to Robin van Persie, who powered a header past Red Bulls keeper Frank Rost to give the Gunners a 1-0 lead. 

The draw with Arsenal came on the heels of a win over PSG on Saturday. Without the services of Rafa Marquez and Thierry Henry, New York took a first half lead off a Joel Lindpere goal. In the 27th minute, the Estonian played a give-and-go with Juan Agudelo and received the ball alone at the top of the box. Lindpere took the chance well, hitting a left-footed shot past PSG keeper Salvatore Sirigu for the only goal of the match. 

Both European sides are in preseason form, but many of their top guns played major minutes in the matches against the Red Bulls. The Red Bulls played organized defense and looked dangerous at times, while never having their full starting XI on the field at once. The Emirates Cup victory serves as a confidence boost for a team that has struggled to score goals and play a full ninety minutes of organized defense over the past couple months. 

New York will have six days to rest and practice ahead of a key tilt against Real Salt Lake at Rio Tinto on Saturday. 


What did you think of New York's performance in the Emirates Cup? Hoping the Red Bulls can play like that against RSL? Excited to see an MLS side play well against two quality European sides? Share your thoughts below. 

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102 Responses to Red Bulls tie Arsenal, Win Emirates Cup

  1. Fred says:


  2. federico says:

    Wow we didnt lose 9-0 like all the other clubs in the MLS did vs Man U?

  3. Good Jeremy says:

    Well done New York. What’s even better is that this wasn’t a case of New York playing their starters for 90 minutes against other teams’ reserves and scraping out results.

  4. Hutskizzle says:

    I can’t believe Arsenal paid us to play them lmao

  5. Good Jeremy says:

    And Barcelona. What a shameful, lowly side they are.

  6. solles says:

    there’s hyperbole, and then there’s foolishness. Welcome to the latter.

  7. Baffled says:

    Isn’t this just hilarious? The Red Bulls, a team known for not winning major trophies, abandons the US Open Cup (America’s oldest competition) but sends a full side (with Coach Backe!) to win a meaningless 2-day tournament.

    I was actually hoping they would lose this competition just so the comparison couldn’t be made.

  8. federico says:

    Lets gets something straight the US OPEN CUP is MEANINGLESS as HELL. Winning the Emirates Cup is good for MINOR LEAGUE SOCCER. Its the mentality of guys like Baffled for the reason why US soccer is such shite.

  9. Dan in New York says:

    Fantastic! It was great to hear the English announcers going on and on about what a “poor side” the NY Red Bulls were and then we go on to win their own damn cup! Hahahahaha…

  10. Scott A says:

    Believe me, most RBNY fans wanted the Open Cup more than this. But the team played well in London and I’m proud of them.

  11. Roaul Duke says:

    These announcers were shocking.

    Through a separate thread, it appears the complete a*&hole color commentator is Craig Burley. I am wondering if he knew he was going to be working the game, because it sounded like they picked him face first out of a gutter after a long evening in Glasgow and told him “talk.”

    This guy was silent for what seemed multiple five-minute blocks and then when he did it was mumbling, incoherent and arrogant. And here’s breaking news, if you know how to pronounce the “Real” in “Real Madrid”, you also know how to pronouce “Real Salt Lake”.


  12. john says:

    yeah. the US Open Cup. that will grab attention and get anyone to care. it’s a useless tourney.

    this gutted-out, a bit lucky on the arsenal result, friendly pre-season tourney win will do more for nyrb and mls than a winning the us open cup 10 years in a row.

    and winning emirates will only do a little if anything.

    us open cup… please.

  13. john says:

    exactly. when global competition calls, those who want to prioritize us open cup just want to be a big fish in a small pond… aka the landon donovan approach to the game.

    i’d rather be a just-a-fish trying to compete in the big pond… and trying to playing a good game in the process. success will come on all levels by attempting this.

    today’s play against arsenal was a bit too defensive for my tastes (better in second half). but well done in the end.

  14. Scott A says:

    Can anyone confirm who it was? Several people said it was Robbie Savage. He’s active on Twitter @robbiesavage8, and if it was indeed him, don’t feel bad about giving him your opinion on his commentating as he’s always been a tool ha.

  15. Steven says:

    How is it meaningful? You thinks some Brits are gonna give a ***** that NYRB won some preseason tourney? Give me a break.

  16. Scott A says:

    It does look like it was Craig Burley. A quick search reveals that a lot of people hate him. He’s employed by ESPN so could make your thoughts known to them. If it indeed was Burley today..

  17. Baffled says:

    Emirates Cup MEANS NOTHING!!!!

    It is the World Football Challenge of Europe.

  18. Highs and Lows says:

    Great for NY to get their first win in a long time yesterday, and silverware today, but I think there’s a serious problem if Arsenal can’t win their own tournament designed to get them to win a trophy. They really need a good CB. Their starting back 4 were good, but you need more than them to win the league. Last gasp goals and two own goals in two weeks don’t really go well moving into a new season.

  19. This Guy says:

    It’s almost as if it was meaningless enough for some eurosnob to come on SBI and comment about out of anger.

  20. Rev up those Revs says:

    A trophy is a trophy right?

  21. hogatroge says:

    I have to give RBNJ props for this win, no matter how minor people might think it is. MLS made a statement in Europe, period. Sure, the defense looked frantic at times, and the disparity in skill was obvious, but the results stand. The Red Bulls earned both goals they scored, even if the latter will be credited as an o.g.

    Most important, I hope Dax got noticed by some European scouts by his performance. A move to Europe would be great for him and, hopefully, the USMNT.

  22. Does somebody smell hardware?
    Go ahead haters, start hating.

  23. I would love for Dax to go to Europe. Can we have DeRo back now please.

  24. agnigrin says:

    Exactly Dan… I think those announcers were th most ridiculous I have ever heard…So freaking jingoistic… It was great to hear them eat crow and lots of it!

  25. agnigrin says:

    Yup! Bravo Red Bulls!

  26. john says:

    steven (and others): by saying the us open cup is meaningless does not, in any way, suggest emirates cup IS meaningful.

    false logic on your part.

  27. Gerald says:

    Ream, Richards, and Miller play 90 minutes back to back days and 3 others play 150 minutes but we can’t spare a couple of starters for an Open Cup match 3 days after a the previous match. This is why the South Ward Protested

    BTW the way Congrats on winning the Emirates cup

  28. canchon says:

    Fantastic showing by NYRB. Rost had a great performance today. I think for the first time we saw what a good signing Rost might turn out to be – organized the back line, made some good saves. He was a bit in no-mans-land on the RVP goal, but that was mostly responsible for Rafa losing his mark.

    NYRB didn’t even play their first choice formation (Mendes was in the back, Marquez as D-mid, Tainio further up the pitch, no Lindpere) but they defended well, and a class pass by Henry for the their goal.

    No reason to discount a win vs PSG and a tie vs Arsenal at their home stadium. Good result for MLS today.

  29. federico says:

    Not being a Eurosnob lets be honest Minor League Soccer is not respected and you know why because its SUCKS. Whats the point of winning the US Open Cup, literally probably one of the most useless Cups in the World. Anytime you can play vs Arsenal in London you play it you HACKS!

  30. Oranje Mike says:

    So true, so true.

    If these snobs didn’t care they wouldn’t read this article or post anything. If they read and are influenced to share their worthless opinion…they care.

  31. federico says:

    Don’t you think this helps the MLS as it needed to save a little face after Man U beat the Sounders in Seattle 7-0! Then our best players the MLS All Stars lost 4-0 while Man U was in pre-season. MINOR LEAGUE SOCCER IS A JOKE! Let me repeat myself 7-0 PRESEASON.

  32. Lil' Zeke says:

    by the way it’s “major league soccer” dodo.


  33. lprevolution says:

    Yeah I totally agree with you. What’s the point to win US Open Cup when all they would do is play “meaningless” competition games against top quality Mexican teams 10 years in a row. That would be horrible.

  34. lprevolution says:

    lost in translation

  35. Wm. says:

    I dare you to stand on his coffee table in cowboy boots and say that to Savage!

  36. Timber Dan says:

    This. Same goes for Tim Ream and a few others. I’m not exactly hoping these guys leave. I just think it’ll do MLS proud to win this preseason cup. If nothing else, it makes people realize that solid soccer can be played in places other than London or Barcelona.

    Kudos to the Red Bulls. As a Timber fan I was pulling for you all the way.

  37. Mario in QT says:

    Congrats Red Bulls. This is great for MLS in general. Winning the US Open Cup is important to us MLS supporters but the publicity garnered by this Emirates Cup win will go much further with the Eurosnobs who will eventually have to look in their own back yard as well as foreign players that will increasingly look to MLS as the money machine grows in the coming years.

    By the way, a $4/$6 Mil team in mid season form was better than $100 million team in preseason form…

  38. Rondo says:

    Dax to Europe? Really? I thought he had an awful game. He was anonymous for the majority of the game especially the first half.

    Plus last thing USMNT needs is another central mid.

  39. Brit in Houston says:

    From a purely American standpoint, it was very cool to see NY next to Arsenal on the scoreboard. This year’s event in particular was very much a collection of great world cities – London, Paris, Buenos Aires, and New York. NY is a global city, and its nice to see that when it comes to the global game, the US has a seat at the table. Just by NY showing up it forced all Arsenal fans across Europe, Africa, and Asia to think about MLS, if even for a second.

  40. So are we in this automatically next year?

  41. Jake the Snake says:

    “to be a big fish in a small pond… aka the landon donovan approach to the game.”

    HAHA nice.

  42. canchon says:

    Just nitpicking, but NYRB is about a $12M team…Arsenal must be worth more than $100M, right? What was Gervinho bought for, $20 million at least?

  43. federico says:

    Exactly the US Cup is a JOKE

  44. Scott A says:

    I would perish.

    And nice Steve Earle/Townes Van Zandt reference.

  45. john says:

    iprev said “top quality mexican teams”…

    rather play top quality english, french, or other euro teams. you know, where the top players in mexico, u.s., brazil, argentina, etc go play.

    so, yes, in comparison, us open cup and what it offers is sooo much less. not that we’re really in a world where a team must pick one or the other. but if they do…

  46. john says:

    well, federico, i’ve agreed with most of you said… this may be a bit much! haha.

    others: again, when the best players from the u.s., mexico, brazil, argentina, etc go play in europe it’s more than likely those leagues are a better level of competition.

    teams will only improve (e.g. mls teams) much more by playing european teams than themselves.

    so, if you have to pick, us open cup holds nothing on even a meaningless pre-season emirates cup. nyrb did more for themselves, their players, and yes us fans by going.

    get beyond your nationalism for a second, maybe even two, and see how this benefits US in the long run.

  47. J-man 1221 says:

    Your just jealous 😀

  48. BB says:

    I can’t believe RBNY pulled that off but hey, a goal’s a goal.

  49. ChrisTheLSUTiger says:

    Those announcers were awful. Have they ever heard of professionalism? They were musing at one point about whether or not NYRB would even be able to play in the Championship.

  50. ChrisTheLSUTiger says:

    I’ll nitpick, too, and say RBNY wasn’t the better side, but they held in there with Arsenal, so props to them for that. Also, if we look at best-bang-for-the-buck, I’m going to have to go with RBNY on this one.

  51. Chris says:

    Didnt watch the PSG game, but in the arsenal game the redbulls played some ugly, awful soccer. There must have been at least 20 aimless longballs in the first half, and their passing game as a whole was nonexistent. Anyone who watched the game will see that MLS still has quite a long way to go, but those who just see the scores will be impressed. That being said, I was impressed with Rost, Richards, Miller, and of course Henry. Also, I think my mom could playfullback better than Albright. I think overall it definitely gave the MLS a degree of credibility, but at the same time showed how incredibly inferior our league is skillwise. But hey, they got the results, so good job redbulls.

  52. Yogi says:

    To be fair in regards to the Landon Donovan criticism…What’s your take on Pele? He plied his trade in Brazil for the vast majority of his career and then the US.

  53. Phlogiston says:

    If you had seen the PSG game, it would have put some of your concerns to rest. The Red Bulls showed composure on the ball and much better movement than their continental opponents, although they had a little bit of trouble in the final third. The commentators rightly pointed out that it was a deserved victory and that the Red Bulls looked the better side.

  54. Vick says:

    This really was not a meaningless friendly, when all things to consider.
    An MLS team being invited to a tournament with world class teams? I’ll take that any day of the week. If MLS is to expand as a recognizable league, playing in Europe, the heart of soccer, is a great way to expand. On top of everything, regardless of how flashy the Red Bull’s style of play was, they won the 2011 Emirates Cup. Congrats, boys..

  55. hogatroge says:

    To be fair, I only saw the second half, but he stood out to me as far as NY players go.

    As far as CMs for the USMNT, I agree. Too bad we don’t have any stellar LB prospects. Then again, Gabriel Farfan did own Kaka a couple of times when Madrid played in Philly.

  56. fff says:

    This comment shows how ignorant yank fans are. Fat morons

  57. AL says:

    What an amazing championship for MLS……not really. NY scored two goal and allowed one against teams that are still trying to figure out who belongs on the team.
    I would like to see them play these games again in about three months. Then we can talk.

  58. Jya says:

    You are not seriously comparing Pele’s career to Donovan. In Pele’s era players didn’t go to Europe or abroad in general at anywhere near the rate they do now. Look at the world cup squads of his era most players played in the local domestic league regardless of what country they were from. Back then the best player was the one that had the best world cup performance now the Champions league is used as a measuring stick.

    Of course if Donovan were winning world cups nobody would say anything about him staying in the USA but that isn’t the case so don’t ever compare Pele to Donovan in anyway again.

  59. john says:

    Jya: ditto.

    yogi: jya was exactly right. but even if jya wasn’t exactly right, did you seriously compare LD to Pele!?! oh, it hurts.

    i’m happily fully american. but get a grip everyone on where american soccer is in the grand scheme of world football.

  60. Gacm32 says:

    Where is Ives with this tool? You’re country is ranked number 3 in world obesity yet you call us ‘fat morons’.

  61. chris says:

    Hey third world f*ck. The us open cup is a joke

  62. Flacotex says:

    According to the Guardian, Henry was supposed to play for Arsenal in the second half, but ‘officials’ didn’t like that so it didn’t happen: link to

  63. Mario in QT says:

    Hey Al, did you read above where one team is composed of players worth about one tenth of the other. No one claims NYRB were a better team and we all know about pre season form. Get some perspective!

  64. Pitt Evertonian says:

    Someone please explain to me how winning a meaningless pre-season tournament is good for RBNY and MLS in general? It’s nice and I am sure they got some lame trophy or plate to commemorate their “hard fought” win over PSG and a lucky draw with Arsenal, but let’s get serious. This event means absolutely nothing. It’s preseason training for clubs, kind of like a intrasquad scrimmage.

  65. A.S. says:

    This counts as “silverware”, right?

  66. irishapple21 says:

    I’m very proud of my NY Red Bulls. They really played their hearts out. It’s very tough to play games on back-to-back days and it showed with the Red Bulls poor form in most of the Arsenal game, but they played fantastic defense and only moved to the attack late in the game after they had worn Arsenal down. Henry’s play to Miller that forced the own goal was a work of art. The Red Bulls deserved this win because they never gave up. Gotta love how the commentators were pissing all over RBNY and then RBNY won the tournament. RBNY’s payroll = $15 million (and $11 million of that goes to two players, neither of whom played in the win over PSG.) PSG’s payroll = $75 million. Arsenal’s payroll = $102 million. I’d say RBNY made MLS proud.

  67. marco says:

    Yes Hull was such a great EPL side, I see their point

    pointy heads

  68. Chris says:

    glad to hear it

  69. bigPepe'sPapa says:

    do you mean for that same competition that the Mexicans themselves wish they didnt have to play, or rather that it was with opponents much further south then central american rat-infested jungle stadiums? wow, thats something to really brag about there my friend. As for you John, you do know that one team alone in Brazil makes 3 times the amount that all of MLS does in its annual TV contract? And yes, thats in US dollars. Dont presume that only football played on one piece of the earth is capable of worldwide respect. When these European fans go home from their storied teams’ matches, become restless, and look for some football on TV, they’re definately looking for some Brazilian league matches and not for MLS/FMF. So yeah, when Garber sucks some conmebol **** then RB will be able to showcase themselves on a reputable international stage (copa lib), until that time playing that little team from N. London aint bad

  70. bigPepe'sPapa says:

    apparently, arsenal fans booed their team off the field. so that suggest that yes, they did care about the outcome.

  71. RB says:

    “Someone please explain to me how winning a meaningless pre-season tournament is good for RBNY and MLS in general?”

    Well first I think we’re still waiting for an explanation of why we were supposed to be so outspoken in our support of RSL as an MLS team in the CCL final, but yet there’s no talk of supporting Monterrey as the CONCACAF representative at the next club WC.

    Then maybe we can get to your question. :-)

  72. Don Miguel says:

    NYRB looked terrible vs Arsenal. The passing was wretched. The commentators were snobs and very “British”. That said, I would have to agree that RB looked like a championship level squad today, at best. It was a fluke draw and Arsenal could have pounded them by several more goals. I am an avid MLS fan and I was embarrassed at Red Bull’s lack of skill. Despite the cup win, it was not a good showing for MLS.

  73. Good Jeremy says:

    but… they still won the cup. You take your style points, I’ll take results.

  74. ted says:

    I was raging about that too…until I saw what they were up to.

    They played possum. Utterly defensive, park-the-bus soccer…for the first 60 minutes. They were clearly very aware of the huge edge Arsenal had in quality depth.

    Then they subbed in Agudelo…and loosed the hounds. The last 30 minutes NYRB was attacking in waves and the announcers never picked up on the discrepancy.

    It was the soccer version of the rope-a-dope, and Arsenal went for it, big-time.

    New York had some luck, but tactically Backe utterly schnookered Arsene Wenger today.

  75. Leo says:

    In the way that plastic utensils count as silverware, sure.

  76. The Dude says:

    Man, NY wins the Emirates Cup and people STILL criticize them. They were the minnows in this tournament and did what they had to do. They conceded ONE goal in two games. That’s something to be proud of. Keep in mind, too, that many NY players played two 90-minute games in a row (Saturday and Sunday) so obviously they weren’t as sharp as they could have been against Arsenal. Still, this tournament does two things for NY/MLS. 1) Gives NY confidence for the last part of the season, 2) Shows 115,000 live fans and many more than MLS teams can compete, even if we lack the resources and depth of the big dogs.

    Finally, who the hell invented this USOC vs. Emirates division? NY could have won BOTH tournaments if Backe knew how to use his team properly.

  77. The Dude says:

    Have you ever played two 90-minute games two days in a row? Against PSG and Arsenal? If so, then you’d know it’s difficult to be at your best on the latter day. No matter. We did what we had to do to win. So show some damn respect.

  78. RB says:

    Goof for them.

    Now can stop using the word “tournament” to refer to a 2-game affair?

  79. Ferris says:

    Am I also expected to cheer for Mexico in the 2013 Confederations Cup?

  80. McQ says:

    This was a big win in many ways lets make no bones about it. Most Europeans don’t even view the MLS as a real league but rather a joke where players go for one last payday. The RedBulls came to compete and they did that. True they were essentially outclassed by Arsenal and made to look inferior but lets be honest, Arsenal move the ball probably better than all but one team in the world. RBNY is not the first team to go to the Emirates and bunker down and hope to catch the Arsenal on the counter (which might I point out was a plan that worked).

    As the announcers (correctly) pointed out, the gulf in talent was quite apparent. Does anyone here actualy believe that MLS teams could compete in the Prem week in week out- let alone against one of the Big Four?

    If you watched the PSG game on Saturday, you would have heard the announcers be equally as positive re: the Redbulls – they stated numerous times that “they knew what to do with the ball moving it well”, “had good pace”,”had a plan and executed it” and “deserved to win” against a French side – maybe a more realistic measuring stick.

    Don’t take anything away from RBNY for this. This was a positive learning experience especially for the likes of Aguedello, Ream etc. They went to Europe and played in front of 60,000 fans learned what it was like to play against top competition who gave you no time on the ball and at the end came away with a draw. By the way I think RBNY made one or two substitutions bringing in Aguedello and some guy at the back with an afro while Arsenal brought on the likes of Eboue and Arshavin – that is all you need to know.

    The RedBulls aquitted themselves and the MLS as well as anyone could have hoped. Well done Boys!

  81. TGA says:

    for you young punks still messing in your diapers…the movement of south american players to europe didn’t start until after the 1978 World Cup.
    and MLS is minor league soccer…washed up Euros and no name Latinos

  82. MiamiFCforever says:

    good for nyrb players got to play at the emirates against arsenal.Hope it gives a taste of something bigger and better for guys like Agudelo and Ream.

  83. RB says:

    Ah, yes, that would be another such example!

  84. nyrb fan says:

    SO A 15MIL. TEAM BEAT A 75MIL AND TIED A 102 MIL TEAM (FOR THE BRITISH SNOBS CONVERT TO PUNDS YOURSELF!)BOTTOM LINE THE WORST TEAM IN TOURNEY WON…WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT YOUR TEAM? oh sorry for caps and i am not retyping go bulls and I hope the other NY team wins friday GO COSMOS (with borrowed players!?)

  85. Catenaccio says:

    They booed because Arsenal is prone to losing pretty much any hardware they should take home. Haven’t you ever read “Fever PItch?” Arsenal is the NYRB of the EPL. They should win but they never do. They created this cup with the hope of just winning something to keep their fans satisfied. Overall, I think the Open Cup has done wonders for building teams like the Sounders who have hardware and are in Champions League and use that as a rallying cry for their club. People put too much emphasis on English teams as high quality and this tournament was a joke. PSG and Arsenal in pre-season, Boca coming off a year near the bottom. Whatever. MLS lost games 7-0 because they don’t want to lose their best players to injury. Those friendlies, like this tournament are a joke. Tell a Sounders fan their two Open Cup wins are a joke. I dare ya…

  86. Catenaccio says:

    Federico, you play it so everyone back home can watch it? IF this was so important why was it not even aired on ESPN? And BTW, the US Open Cup is one of the oldest competitions. So even if you think it’s useless, at least admire its history you c&*t

  87. Dainja says:

    So proud of my Bulls. I have to admit, I was all ready to complain about how dull our style was for the Arsenal game (while against PSG, we played beautiful ATTACKING soccer)…then Agudelo came in and we turned it on! I know Agudelo may not have had that great of a game, but putting someone in the lineup who was fresh and wanted to attack made all the difference. it woke New York up and now we have brought a trophy home for the whole league.

  88. Kigai says:

    Is there no hope for Arsenal this season? Manchester United and Barcelona are crushing teams 7-0 and 4-0. Yet Arsenal scrapes by New York, Hangzhou, and Koln. This season is looking more and more grim for Arsenal. I can’t take it…

  89. O'Hara says:

    announcers like this perpetuate the eurosnob mentality…that one guy in particular was garbage. I’m glad NY won this thing.

  90. Miggy says:

    yeah, couldnt understand this eurodouche

  91. Max says:

    +1, awful trade

  92. Mitch says:

    no doubt, Emirates Cup is legit

  93. Javy says:

    You must not have watched the second half, eurosnot

  94. Livy says:

    eurodouchy parts of your comment…the announcers ate crow after the game was over…idiots

  95. Singh says:

    +1, he made a difference. The team looked much better in the 2nd Half

  96. Sot says:

    One word…OVERRATED!

  97. Adam says:

    Like Arsene doesn’t know who is going to be on the team….At this rate, I wonder where the top MLS clubs will be in 5-10 years.

    Way to go NY.

  98. Rick says:

    +1, lol

  99. Mitch says:

    yep, Henry is a legend there…Nice to see him lift the hardware

  100. MulletIBC says:

    okay dude, we get it. you feel better about yourself? making fun of our 16 YEAR OLD league like ten times?? well good for you! pat on the back, round of applause… get over yourself, we know we are not a top flight league, but the little that we have we enjoy it and we dont try to shove it in anyones face! 1996NY