41 responses

  1. slowleftarm
    October 9, 2013

    Wonder if the PC police will get on Wilshire for his common sense statements. According to some commenters, it seems like anyone should just play for anywhere they feel like.

    • slowleftarm
      October 9, 2013

      I also think that someone who came to play in the US for five years is a whole lot more American than Aron Johannson although I don’t think either should play for the USMNT.

      • Too Much Tea Party
        October 9, 2013

        Yes, that whole Born in the USA automatic citizenship thang must be too much for you. Sheesh.

      • Kosh
        October 9, 2013

        You see .I don’t think slow is that conservative (I could be wrong on this, sorry if I am slow but based on your positions and your posts I kinda felt that you are liberal if not moderate – not that that matters or is anyone’s business). That’s the cool thing about slow though, that I really like and respect. He/she has a principle that they stand by (that I disagree with) but plaiting slow with a label as a Tea Party member is a bit too far.

        Slow could be a member of the Tea party and while I certainly disagree with their views that does not make them bad or anything. In fact you just did what slow does – you measured someone’s “ness” because it is in opposition to your definition of tolerance. How do you get to slow being a member of the Tea Party because of his/her position on AJ’s “Americanness”? (Man I hate that word)

        This is not a political statement just something to make my point – I am Liberal and proud of it but that does not mean that I don’t and cannot share the views of someone who is right leaning (well it depends on how far right. :-) ) just because slow said something unpopular does not warrant name calling. We have to cut that out of our discourse folks and the first step is being decent with those who you disagree with.

      • Lil’ Zeke
        October 9, 2013

        Nice! But slow provokes when he/she calls people who disagree with him “PC Police.” What is that, some antivirus utility?

      • Turgid Jacobian
        October 9, 2013

        “antivirus utility” “dead giveaway.” Potato, potahtoh.

      • Increase
        October 9, 2013

        It is quite easy for radical left wing groups(not american ones really) to be very very xenophobic. Look at Venezuela. The socialist party there is extremely xenophobic.

      • wood chip zip
        October 9, 2013

        It has nothing to do with politics and everything to do with where a player received their soccer education. Darlington Nagbe recieved almost all of his training in the US yet he currently can not play for us even though he’s lived here over half of his life and is married to an American. Yet a guy like Johannson can. Put it this way, if the US does well in the World Cup with over half of our players receiving 99% of their soccer education from another nation’s development system (not saying that will be the case, just a hypothetical), that doesnt reflect well on US Soccer for some of us. As Bruce Arena pointed out, it certainly doesnt represent an improvement over the status quo. Frankly, I’m embarrassed that your political intolerance makes you incapable of considering both sides of this issue.

      • Lil’ Zeke
        October 9, 2013

        What about all that soccer education Clint got outside the US? Don’t you BE questioning Deuce’s right to wear the crest!

      • whoop-whoop
        October 9, 2013

        Yes farm, by now we all know what you think. While I may or may not agree on an emotional level, individual “feelings” regarding who qualifies are completely irrelevant. It’s a legal issue, your feelings mean nothing…. ask a judge.

        There are rules in place in each country regarding what constitutes citizenship. There are rules according to FIFA regarding what qualifies a person to represent his country. Putting together a team, a manager is obligated to assess the available pool of players legally qualified.

        So… barking at/criticizing at these selections every time a National team makes one is a complete waste of time and is misplaced. Complaints or action should be directed at FIFAs stipulations regarding who qualifies to represent a nation or, address your nations citizenship laws. At a certain point, unless complaints are intended to promote purposeful change….. it really is nothing more than whining.

      • Lost in Space
        October 9, 2013

        Slow, you’ve brought this argument/sentiment up many times in regards to USMNT players (Brooks, Johannsson, Chandler, Williams, Jones, etc….); and you are welcome to your opinion. However, so long as players adhear to the citizenship laws of the nation involved they are within their right to play for whatever nation they decide to play for.
        In the case of US players….The US has one of the strictest citizenship requirements of any nation. Citizenship is limited to having been born on US Soil, being born to a US Citizen, or 5-10 years to obtain naturalized citizenship.
        If you think that the citizenship requirments for the US need to be more strict I suggest you contact your congressman an push for legislation that requires people to meet whatever your criteria may be…

    • Kosh
      October 9, 2013

      Sorry, slow, but I added my response above yours. :-)

    • Travis in Miami
      October 9, 2013

      You feel very strongly about this. I’m guessing with your incessant posting on this message board (perhaps others a well?) you have a legion of like minded people that you could organize to lobby FIFA to change the policy. Or you could just keep complaining.

    • Increase
      October 9, 2013

      Its not common since if you consider the complex history of the United Kingdom. Are people from the Falklands English? Do they consider themselves English? It’s very shortsighted for a nation like that.

  2. Kosh
    October 9, 2013

    See that’s what sparks the response from me (and yes I bit). I both respect and disagree with your notion on who should play where. FIFA set the rules and people are, for the most part, playing by them. If that we’re the argument you wouldn’t hear a peep further from me because you have your position as I have mine on this, and while I don’t feel as strongly as you do to bring it up every chance I get it’s all good.

    What prompts my response now and always and forever will is this Americanometer thingy you have in your basement that you bring out every time this conversation takes place. You have beef with AJ playing for us? OK. But to challenge his “Americanness” (whatever the heck that is) is wher I stand up for any fellow American. I am naturalized and am probably too old to put on a uniform and defend my country and people at this point, but I will always stand and defend my fellow citizens whenever and wherever I can. It’s the least I can do, and I will always respond to your challenges of AJ’s and any other American’s “Amaricanness” (whatever that means).

    I kinda like you and respect most of your posts slow, but here we differ and I’ll be thee every time to call you out on this one, buddy.

  3. PD
    October 9, 2013

    First off, an 18 year old cannot help that 5 years equals a third of his life. Second, immigration is this thing where folks move from one place to another, making their “nationality” and their heritage a little less than cut and dried. I guess not all of us can find our names in the Domesday Book.

    Do I think players are gaming this FIFA regulation? Sure they are, but that’s a recruitment dynamic that is universal to nearly every sport, only the players and roles and allegiances change.

    But the assumption that there’s some purity test that defines when a person belongs to a nation or not is what I think gets people worked up about this.

    • Camjam
      October 9, 2013

      Notice this is only ever really talked about in the world of soccer. I can’t remember the last time I heard complaining about people playing for other countries in Olympic sports (half of our table tennis team is an immigrant family from Asia).

      Or possibly a better comparison is basketball. It’s a game that’s popular worldwide, but only about 5 teams every have a shot at winning anything. That dynamic takes a lot of the competition for players away. If you are selected for those top 5 teams, you stay, and if you don’t you exploit ties to any other country. You never hear people spouting off when Ben Gordon tries for English citizenship.

      • PD
        October 9, 2013

        On the contrary, you hear about this kind of eligibility issue all the time in the Olympics, more generally, one constantly gears about “purity tests” whether it’s nationality, race, political affiliation, religious association. It’s a global issue that goes far beyond sport.

      • David M
        October 9, 2013

        On the contrary, this is a very hot issue in the Olympics. For example, just before the Beijing Olympics, Georgia (not the US state, but one of the former Soviet republics) basically bought an entire beach volleyball team from Brazil. They found some Brazilian players who weren’t good enough to make the Brazil team and offered them substantial amounts of money to play for Georgia. Those who agreed were given Georgian citizenship right away. Needless to say that those “Georgian” players knew next to nothing about the country, didn’t know the language, and in some cases had never even been there.

      • David M
        October 9, 2013

        Sorry, PD, didn’t mean to steal your opening phrase.

  4. Ian
    October 9, 2013

    Chicharito comes across as a rather humble guy when I hear him speak English and in translation. I have no love for Man Utd or Mexico, but I wish the Little Pea the best. Man U is going to have to make some serious changes to get back into form. It’ll be interesting to see if Chicharito plays any part in Moyes’ plan.

    • Patrick
      October 9, 2013

      Yeah, I remember that one of the reasons SAF wanted him was that he was getting his MBA part-time. Dude is smart and “educated” both academically, and in the way that intellectual Mexicans are brought up to be…an “educated” person isn’t necessarily someone with a PhD…it’s someone with class.

    • BrianK
      October 9, 2013

      He needs to move on. Many teams could use his poaching ability. He is (rightfully) just too far down the pecking order at ManU.

    • Marcelo Balboa’s Mustache
      October 9, 2013

      +1. As much as I dislike El Tri. I have a hard time not rooting for Chicharito. Dude is class.

    • whoop-whoop
      October 9, 2013

      +1
      I’ll add my agreement

  5. SoCal Soccer Mom
    October 9, 2013

    >>But to challenge his “Americanness” (whatever the heck that is) is wher I stand up for any fellow American.<<

    Everyone who plays for the National Team (England, US, whatever) is doing so per the offical rules of FIFA – so live with it. And even if your not in favor, just think – what better to improve their "Americanness" (if you think it's needed) than to have them play with the National Team ?

    I remember one of the first interview with Jermaine Jones when he first joined the USMNT, and he said how included he felt (more so than in Germany). How's that for Americanness?

    And if I was a young soccer player I'd go where I thought I'd have the best chance to to play in the World Cup. Nothing is more American than wanting to suceede at the hights level.

    • David M
      October 9, 2013

      So, how would you feel about an American young soccer player obtaining Brazilian or Spanish or French citizenship only because he felt that playing for Brazil (Spain, France) was giving him the best chance to win the World Cup?

      • Clyde Frog
        October 9, 2013

        I’d feel his personal choices were none of my business.

      • SoCal Soccer Mom
        October 9, 2013

        Hey, why not go for it. It’s a personal choice, and they are lucky if they have a chance to play for any country. If it was my kid, he’d be stuck with the US (have to go back to 1840s to find ancestors not born in the US – potato famine gave us some Irish ancestors to go with all the English, Dutch and Scots).

      • Increase
        October 9, 2013

        I don’t remember hardly a thing before I was 12… so depending on when I moved to Brazil…. I might feel more Brazilian….

    • Marcelo Balboa’s Mustache
      October 9, 2013

      “Nothing is more American than wanting to suceede (sp) at the hights(sp) level.”

      DISAGREE. Totally fair at the club level because that’s a job. Americans want success at your job. On a societal level though, I like to think America still honors sacrifice, service above self, integrity, and loyalty above success. International soccer is about representing something greater than yourself. It is about the honor of representing the dreams of your community. I’m not going to point fingers and try and judge which players are playing for selfish reasons vs noble ones, but there are higher virtues than self-promotion, and as a country America still aspires to those. I hope. At least I do.

    • vic
      October 9, 2013

      NO WAY! National Teams are NATIONAL TEAMS! You play for your country! Jermaine Jones’s father is American. If you were not born there, or have a parent from there, you shouldn’t play on the National team. You want to “succeed at the highest level” you play in the best teams in leagues, not nationally. Its ruining the whole pride of a national team, are you kidding me. Your saying Messi should’ve chose Spain over his national team because he lived in spain????

  6. Good Jeremy
    October 9, 2013

    I agree with Wilshere regarding Januzaj.
    He has lived in England for three years and only moved there as part of a transfer to Man U. He wasn’t born there, didn’t spend any of his youth there, doesn’t have any family connections there, and didn’t go there as a refugee. He only went there to be part of Man U.

    I imagine we would be pretty pissed if Donovan pledged himself to Germany from his time over there. Or if Villyan Bijev chose England after his loan at Liverpool, or if Pelosi chose England after being in the Liverpool academy for a couple years, or if Lederman chose Spain after playing for the Barcelona community.

    I don’t think that a player should be able to choose a team based *solely* on gaining citizenship by living in that country to play soccer. The precedent could be dangerous if England, Spain, and Germany started claiming every kid that comes through the Arsenal, Barcelona, and Bayern Munich academies as their own.

    • Increase
      October 9, 2013

      The problem with what Wilshere said is that he basically ruled out anyone who wasn’t born in England proper. According to Wilshere: Matt Le Tissier is not English enough to play for England because he was born and grew up on Guernsey.
      This is not part of England or the U.K! It is a possession of the crown but it is not subject to UK laws. FRENCH is their official legislative language. Yet he played…

      Basically what I’m trying to say is that Wilshere is xenophobic and has opinions that don’t fit with this Era or his own nation’s extremely complex history. I guess if you are born in the Falklands you won’t be English enough either…..

      • BBB
        October 9, 2013

        xxxxxxxxxxenophobia!!! I don’t know what it means, but it feels good to label people….

  7. RBNY
    October 9, 2013

    Wilshere has a point, but he’s coming off as a xenophobic loser. I get the arguement against Januzaj playing for England – he has zero ties to England beyond playing soccer, but you tread on thin ice when you start calling people foreigners. If you have familial ties to that nation, you should be able to play for them.

    • David M
      October 9, 2013

      “you tread on thin ice when you start calling people foreigners.” — is foreigner a dirty word? if someone’s a foreigner, why can’t you call them that?

      And what about calling people you don’t know xenophobic?

      • RBNY
        October 9, 2013

        Let’s cut out the semantics. The word foreigner, in and of itself, is not dirty – but I’m pretty sure you understand the conotation that it can have when used in certain ways.

        Case in point – Wilshere says that you should be “English” to play for England. Taken at face value, that statement isn’t very ground breaking is it? However, if you read between the lines, you’ll get what he’s really trying to say. He tried to take a step back from the initial statement with a followup, but his true sentiments should be plainly obvious to anyone with half a brain.

  8. Joamiq
    October 9, 2013

    Some background would be nice… what was Wilshere’s first bout with controversy? What was Klopp initially suspended for?

    • Ted Drews
      October 9, 2013

      Photographed smoking a cigarette at a party.

      • Ted Drews
        October 9, 2013

        Wilshire, not Klopp

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